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HOW MANY TAGS ARE ENOUGH??
Posted: 16 December 2014 04:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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Since we are already off topic.

Maybe this is nit picking Kevin.  But how would the language in the bill apply to elevated platforms not attached to a tree?  Such as tri-pod stands, elevated box blinds, etc.

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Posted: 16 December 2014 05:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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BW, good question.  I would assume, following the letter of the law, that anything not attached to the tree would be OK.  From what we were told, the language was originally put into place to keep people from climbing trees and disrupting dens.  It kind of went hand-in-hand with this section:

(c) It is unlawful for any person at any time to take a wild mammal protected by this Act from its den by means of any mechanical device, spade, or digging device or to use smoke or other gases to dislodge or remove such mammal except as provided in Section 2.37.

It was just outdated, and not very well known by deer hunters that law enforcement considered treestands to be covered.  Sometimes it takes a lawyer to decipher some of it…

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Posted: 17 December 2014 01:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Kevin, you have to understand why that regulation was put into place to start with. It had to do with the practice of denning, and people harvesting furbearers directly from their dens. You realize this was put into place before the surge in Deer hunting in Illinois, so a tree stand was not much thought to most sportsmen at the time. Yes a tree stand is a climbing device, so yes under the language that was in place at the time it would have been illegal. Kevin, the first language that was proposed for the change didn’t say specifically for coyotes, so that as well was a the real problem with it alone from trying to attach it with the bobcat language.

Kevin we will have a season upon these cats if all goes right, and if we do the bow hunters of Illinois will not be tossing arrows at them in October !! An October bobcat is worthless fur value wise, and will be much better in November.  These cats will have a season, and if a person has a permit, then they will be able to harvest them during those set dates, and by any legal means. We gave the DNR a little more room on this than we have in the past dealing with furbearer issues due to the nature of the animal, and how many different sportsmen/women would like the chance to pursue this furbearer. This means bow hunters, gun hunters, hounds men will all have a chance to harvest this animal by the means they choose as long as they have a permit, and they are legal to be afield durning that season. This may save from having to go back, and adding the bobcat along with the coyote. I didn’t want this to become a pissing match between user groups, and it is a resource I feel that belongs to all sportsmen/women of our state, so we should all have an opportunity share the resource.


LOL….I know your doing good work Kevin, and we are so far off topic it is crazy, and I am to blame for that, and I apologize for that. You know we all mostly want the same things, but it is the process that some of us differ on sometimes.  Yes your bow hunters should be able to harvest a bobcat out of a tree, just as long as it is within the season set forth, and they are not pulling it out of a den.. LOL..  I would pay good money to see that !!  I know it seems far fetched to think that Kevin, but people do some funny things for money sometimes.

Kevin, one thing I have been hearing that concerns me is a change in the actual deer season. I have been hearing of pushing it into the first part of December, and for a longer period of time. I fear in how this may effect many of my fellow trappers, as most trappers avoid deer season like the plague. I fear more conflict afield if that was the case, because trappers have been waiting to trap after these deer season especially in the southern part of the state, and a season change now would toss everyone into the prime harvest season for fur. More chance for conflict afield is never a good thing, and should be avoided if possible. 

Like I said I have been hearing a lot of things tossed out, and from a lot of different sources, and I guess we will see what happen soon in January. I still advise a legislative avenue at least for the larger pinpoint ideas you would like addressed, just a little advise from over the years is all. Keep it up, and if this oil continues to drop I may see you in Springfield this spring, but if not I will be stuck on this rig, and it will be up to you…LOL….............RTT

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Posted: 17 December 2014 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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Sorry all for derailing the thread… and here I go again contributing more.

RTT, I appreciate the constructive dialogue.  I knew the history of the original language and posted the 2 sections for the Wildlife Code.  The reason I said it was “outdated” is because, like you said, treestands and deer hunting weren’t around when that was put into law.  But CPO’s were enforcing it, and IDNR wasn’t giving ANY slack on the language… even though it made no sense to include coyotes in that law.  Coyotes don’t den in trees.  When the language was changed that first time around (7-8 years ago), IBS had no control over the language that got put in.  That came as a suggestion from IDNR and went straight to the bill’s sponsor.  That’s why we got very specific the 2nd time around, and let the bill run on it’s own.  It’s amazing how much time was spent just to add those 2 words to statute just to let treestand hunters legally shoot coyotes.  And we wonder why government is broken????

If the bobcat bill does go through, then treestand hunters will still be excluded from shooting one the way the bill is worded right now.  It would take another bill to change it, just like it did for coyotes.  IDNR doesn’t have the authority to change it via ad rule since the framework is already set up in statute.  If that were the case, then we wouldn’t have had to run the bill to get coyotes excluded.  I’m not stating whether this is good or bad… just stating the facts.  And I’m not pushing anything to get that language changed.  I just think deer hunters need to be aware that they could not legally shoot one from a treestand the way the current bill (and law) reads, as bobcats are still defined as a furbearing mammal under the Wildlife Code.

Of course, all this is moot unless Quinn grows a pair and signs this bill.  IDNT biologists supported this bill in the beginning… before politics got involved.

IWA is not pushing for any changes to the firearm season… except issuing fewer permits and reducing the LWS’s.  There may be a lot of people with opinions who would like to see it pushed back (and run for a continuous week), but that’s not our stance.  We understand that minor tweaks can make a difference.  Big changes, like moving the whole season back a few weeks, would be a huge change.  Unfortunately, you hear a lot of opinions when you have 270,000 deer hunters in the state.

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Posted: 17 December 2014 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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Do bobcats den in trees?  I honestly don’t know….but it would be hard for me to believe.  Unless the tree was laying dead on the ground.

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Posted: 17 December 2014 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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If the bobcat bill does go through, then treestand hunters will still be excluded from shooting one the way the bill is worded right now.  It would take another bill to change it, just like it did for coyotes


Kevin, you are correct, but what I think the difference was we had the approach to get the season first. I had a big group of people Kevin that wanted this to be trapping only, and I knew that would only be trouble down the road, and I also felt that approach would not have been fair to all the sportsmen/women of Illinois. It would have also been a colossal fail. 

As long as we bring it forward again in the manner the coyote legislation finally passed, then you will have no problem. It was more about timing than anything else Kevin, and pushing this language forward in the manner it was done in it needed no distractions at the time. I wanted it to stand on it own, and let those that wanted to run with it do just that. If we would have amended this language it would have had another trip through committee, and every time it was in committee it got press, and that is not always a good thing Kevin. I didn’t care to have this turn into a fundraiser for the AR groups, and give them the time, or chance to build an opposition to this legislation, been there, and have that hat and tee shirt from that Springfield vacation. LOL

Kevin, thank you for clearing up the season question for me, that is nice to know, and I am glade we will not have to dive into that issue anytime soon, at least with the IWA. I see your dealing with some of the very same issues that I have in the past, and yes there seems to be a lot of different opinions on this topic. The problem is that opinions are just that opinions, and not hard core science, and lets hope sold science wins the day. Things get sticky when political figures are in the mix, so lets hope for the best from our new administration, and what leadership the agency may be inheriting soon. Thanks Kevin


bw, yes bobcats do den in lower hollow trees at times. I have seen them in tree, and I have even seen them den up under a ladies front porch, just about anyplace that offers an opportunity.

RTT

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Posted: 27 December 2014 07:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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I agree with BW about the people that hopped on to deer hunting during the peak. Yes, some of the window stickers are just dumb. I think that the antler craze has really taken away from “deer” hunting. I used to show my Grandpa pictures of huge bucks and he would simply say “son, ya don’t eat the antlers”... I am lucky enough to have a nice piece of land and in a top county in Illinois. I am allowed to hunt for free on the land. I saw a lot of deer there this year, passed on a few gimme shots, young bucks, does with their yearlings and such. There was a real bruiser working that area and I will admit that I decided he would be the only deer I would shoot at. I never fired a shot.

My point is that as several of you have stated, this state has become a gold mine for antlers. When you see nationally broadcasted tv shows and they’re in Pike Co. you can expect the results. Look on ebay sometime at the price of antlers. You’d be amazed at the price of just an ordinary 120 class rack, or the pet stores that sell them for dogs to chew on. I didn’t kill a deer this year or last year for that matter and that doesn’t bother me. What would bother me is if I didn’t get to hunt at all. A couple of days in the woods is just what the doctor ordered sometimes.

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Posted: 27 December 2014 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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Wonder how many people that shot a coyote from a treestand before the law was changed turned in neighbors for violating a game law equal in fine and points to the law they violated hmmm.

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